Before we start throwing daggers at the Infidel-funded golf circus/exhibition series known as LIV, we call upon the most recent survey results from Golf Datatech — a research firm focused on the golf industry. Golf Datatech has no horse in this PGA Tour/DP World Tour/LIV feud. Thankfully Golf Datatech is not owned by any portion of the Infidels’ Public Investment Fund.
It’s a pure survey company — straight and to the point.
So we have the results from their latest polling of “serious golfers” in attempt to get to the realities of LIV support or lack thereof.
First, a few other numbers.
A Harris Poll surveyed 1,000 Americans and it showed that 35 percent were familiar with LIV while 80 percent were familiar with the PGA Tour.
Now on to Golf Datatech’s findings:
First question: Is LIV a good or bad idea?
Result: 23 percent said LIV is a “good idea.” 58 percent said LIV is a “bad or very bad idea.” Additionally, 66 percent said they “don’t like that Saudi money is funding” LIV.
Next question: What about those big guaranteed payments to the like of Phil Mickleson, Dustin Johnson, Cam Smith, Bryson DeChambeau and Brooks Koepka?
Result: Only 25 percent support that idea.
Overall, the findings aren’t good news for the upstart league’s popularity at-large.
Now getting to those actual LIV supporters and this doesn’t bode that well for their “team championship” this weekend in Miami, less than half of the pro-LIV group have embraced the team championships.
The “LIV minority” can be very vocal and given the bottomless pit of Infidel money — many suspect that a lot of posts supporting LIV are “bot-produced.”
Add to all of this the fact that LIV can only be seen on U-Tube and its support there typically doesn’t reach six-figures. Now The Lamest Commissioner In All The Land (aka Greg Norman, aka The Great White Fibber) has said for the past few months that a broadcast deal was being finalized. To date, there’s been nothing but dead silence following that claim.
So now let’s get to the fun stuff.
Noted journalist Bob Harig has been following LIV, he’s been at most of their events and is in Miami. He’s produced a Sports Illustrated piece and it says that, thus far, LIV has spent around $784 million and plans on spending $1 billion next year.
Return on investment to date? ZERO.
It’s a weird business model that is taking a total crapshoot that at some point, these LIV teams will be sold as franchises. Invoking the Great Sucker Theory, LIV is hoping some suckers/investors will fork out hundreds of millions of dollars to buy one of those “franchises.” Now given that Saudi Arabia and its money is considered “toxic” by most reputable companies around the world, LIV thinks those franchises will be able to earn money through sponsorships and merchandising.
Truth be known, LIV has give players scripted material on how to answer tough questions and has escorted media from pressers for asking the wrong questions.
Nice. Yeah, it’s that way in The Kingdom too — freedom be damned.
Main mouthpiece for LIV has been Defector-In-Chief Phil Mickelson, who has had a career-long penchant for inserting those size 13s directly into his mouth.
In a recent LIV presser, Mickelson spouted that the PGA Tour was “trending downwards.”
Oops. This week Lefty backtracked on that with this babbling:
“Maybe I shouldn’t have said stuff like that, I don’t know,” Mickelson said. “But if I’m just looking at LIV Golf and where we are today to where we were six, seven months ago and people are saying this is dead in the water, and we’re past that, and here we are today, a force in the game that’s not going away, that has players of this caliber that are moving professional golf throughout the world and the excitement level in the countries around the world of having some of the best players in the game of golf coming to their country and competing.”
Yes, when they drop $200 million on you, you can pay off those monstrous gambling debts and say all sorts of good things about the LIV circus.
Just this week the LIV boss backtracked on his boast that LIV would “create its own majors.” Perhaps someone told him that tradition isn’t for sale.
No, what you have now is a traveling rogue band of highly-paid golf mercenaries, some past their prime, others with physical problems that could get worse in a year or so.
Instead of coming to town and raising money for local charities — a staple of the PGA Tour model — LIV spends recklessly on itself — witness by the $3 million spent on the player party before the New Jersey event.
At the end of the day, this LIV “grow the game” claim just doesn’t hold water. It has been a hostile and disruptive force in the game of golf, throwing lawsuits around, losing its first one, claiming the PGA Tour has some sort of monopoly yet in the same breath, boasts that LIV is a resounding success, which would seem to negate that “monopoly” claim.
LIV lives to disrupt.
It’s basically LIV and let die.
15 Comments
baxter cepeda
Just getting started…
I read articles about these numbers a few days ago and was not surprised by any of it.
I feel like Warren Buffett here. The numbers may not be there yet but the wizard of Omaha says to invest in things you know when others may not know yet or when the fearful may be running from it, and I know golf and have no fear for LIvs future.
The thing worth noting is most of this survey is “serious golfers”, as in mostly old establishment guys.
Less than 30 percent of Americans even know LIv yet; mostly old establishment guys whom have been told by the established media to complain about Liv like music and people on their lawns.
But any business starting out months ago having 30 percent of Americans recognizing them is a good sign.
LIv struggles to get to 100,00o viewers like all tours struggle when it’s held middle of the the in the US. But some of the American events had over half a million viewers on Sunday.
Bots:
No doubt LIv seems to have bots going on but so does the pga tour.
Those fast talking videos with no person which seem 100 percent one sided (both ways) are must avoid u tube. After a few views they become unwatchable anyways.
But I’m also seeing plenty of u tube folks like the thinking man show, big boy pants golf, secret golf with Elkington, creaser golf— just to name a few-where real u tube golf show personalities are clearly supporting LIv and criticizing Monahan and the Tour. So are comments sections with real names.
Btw can people stop calling it the pga. It’s the pga tour or the Tour for short. Not the PGA.
Which brings up the golf city podcast boys who are obviously tied to the pga tour but seem quite neutral. Those boys need to get a bit more mature as their cool guys act includes lazy research which makes them hard to watch after a while. There’s a ton of common knowledge things they know nothing about like the pga tour paying players a minimum now. They need to get their act together if I’m going to give them time of day. It is a potentially great show.
There’s a ton of opportunities for alternative golf shows to golf channel. After a great start to golf today with Shane and Damon Jack, Golf channel talking shows are increasingly unwatchable thanks to Lynch and Diaz.
The Saudi money concern is partly those pga tour bots at work, including those from the controlled established media, whom—yes —I’m calling bot like.
What these people aren’t being told is that golf has had a growing relationship with the Saudis for about a decade or so. It only became a bad thing when the pga tour got all paranoid and refused to communicate with LIv and foolishly decided to compete instead of coordinate and compromise.
Of course deputy Rory —mr altruistic— is calling for that compromise now.
25 percent of these old guys surveyed don’t support signing bonuses: what would they do if they were offered?
And what do they think about the pga tours most lucrative competition is the PIP popularity contest which will determine who plays their most prestigious events?
PiP is what no one should support. Especially since the pga tour has to do this silly system to avoid paying taxes…Something Tom never liked prior to LIv.
The LIv team thing: I’ve always wanted it for golf but I too have been there doubting it —mainly because of some of those dorky team names— but I’m coming around as I learn and remember more and more who’s who. And it will evolve further.
As we speak I’m absolutely loving watching this Liv team championships.
And also worth noting: statistics are for losers.
As Mr Buffett reminds us: buy early. Buy low. And then Sit and wait.
I invested so early, it’s just too bad I won’t actually see any returns because I can’t actually invest…but make no mistake, I would invest today more than ever.
LIv is disruptive. But as Tony and Wilbon agree wholeheartedly (PTI Thursday show) is this whole thing may be a disaster for Monahan and the pga tour, but it has been the greatest thing ever for golf: fans, news, players.
And it’s just getting started.
Tom Edrington
Perhaps you and your friends can raise $300 million to buy one of those “franchises” Ever heard of the term “bagholders” — Seems they think this thing will be the second coming of the Premier League……By the way, Buffett typically buys undervalued, long-existing companies — not start-ups that have had nearly a billion poured in with no return…..Warren’s smarter than that — that’s why Berkshire Hathaway buys Apple when it takes a big dip, which is what happened recently, then voila!! It’s back at 155. That what Buffett does — no way in the world he’d buy one of those LIV ‘franchises” — it’s a loser.
forky76
This whole mess is getting so destructive. If the pga tour had a team event this week with a field as strong as that in Miami, it would be a huge success. Instead we have people taking shots at each other, the media shitting all over liv, and an incredibly weak field in bermuda that has no business being a pga tour sanctioned event.
Amongst all this bickering, I haven’t really come across any proposals for ‘peace’ to stop destroying world golf. So here goes…
The top guys play about 25 times a year, so let’s create a world tour, lets call it the PGA World Tour of 25 events. This would include the majors. About 12 events in the US, 8 in Europe, Middle East, South Africa & 5 in Asia, Australia. The actual events to make up this tour to be determined, but possibilities would be the Players, BMW PGA, etc. Good quality existing tournaments. Field size, I dont care. Let’s say 120. Cut or no cut? Again I don’t care. But this seems to be a big deal for all the pga tour bots, so let’s have a cut. Those cut get paid. It’s 2022 now, playing for no money is history.
Below this PGA World Tour, let’s have a series of EQUAL tours around the world offering qualifying to the top league. The remnants of the current pga & European tours could be 2. Add the Japanese tour, Asian tour, sunshine tour & Australasian tour and you have 6 feeder leagues. These yours operate on off weeks of the World Tour. They can have their flagship events, eg Japanese Open, at different windows to try and attract some of the top guys to come and play a handful of events outside their top 25 event season.
Liv isn’t obviously going to walk away from its $1b investment, so maybe they take a small interest in the new tour. The other existing tours could also take a stake to help fund the secondary tours.
Thoughts?
Tom Edrington
Keep in mind, the Saudi money is toxic in the minds of even 66 percent of the LIV supporters…….The new PGA Tour season does away with cross-over events like Bermuda, but you have to give the lesser names and rookies a platform — by the way, in case you didn’t notice, look at those 25 players on the LIV circus that no one has ever heard of — LIV started this fight with all their lawsuits, they lost the first one and if they lose the anti-trust suit, and I believe they will, that would be wonderful. Without world ranking points and a major broadcast deal, LIV will die a slow death…..they are banking on SUCKERS forking out hundreds of millions to buy one of these “teams” — they are under the illusion that this will rival the Premier League in popularity and Forky — you know that ain’t happenin’!
forky76
The pga tour as we know it is dead. Hoping liv will die a slow death and we go back to the way things were is not realistic.
We either live in this current fractured set up, which I don’t think anyone believes is good for the game, or we start looking for compromises.
Tom Edrington
I’d say the PGA Tour is alive and thriving, generates huge charity dollars for every community that has an event….you keep forgetting that Forky and those dollar amounts continue to grow. That’s what the PGA Tour is about, you keep forgetting that…..LIV spends like a drunken sailor, $3 million for player parties……the Saudis are evil and LIV is a Saudi venture, plan and simple as I can explain to you…..your eyes are shut…..PGA Tour still has the best players in the world….LIV has a LOT of players who can’t get on the PGA Tour — Chase Koepka comes to mind and there’s a bunch…
baxter cepeda
Pga tour has drives of players whom can’t get on LIv and many whom are only on the pga tour because of LIv players leaving.
I will agree the pga tour is alive.
They do leave some charity money —mostly generated by local charities—but we know why they do that.
You kinda had convinced me. Paying taxes is almost like charity for the whole community.
Tom Edrington
Oh, wait until I list all the LIV ‘big names”
baxter cepeda
As usual forky I agree with most of what you say.
I hope you check out toms article “Pga tour hits LIv with its own lawsuit…murkier…” for my “wishes” idea for compromise.
What you are not taking into account is these LIv events aren’t going away for a small stake in pga tour events. They aren’t even going away for a huge stake at this point.
And honestly why would anyone want them to go away?
I don’t know if you are watching Liv but it’s friking entertaining and exciting and credible as heck —it’s no exhibition at all imo— regardless of what the establishment bots bot.
I do wish LIv didn’t start the bot wars because they are slowly but surely gaining young fans whom continue being so elusive to Monahans tour; this despite the Tour having most of the young stars still.
There’s just so much I’m already expecting As part of my annual golf viewing schedule. The team thing. The shotgun thing. The limited field thing (although it could be a little bigger—I actually kinda like that minimum requirement number from the owgr of 72). The international thing. The courses they play on thing. These are all things I want in my life and believe the golf fan of the future will as well.
The concession LIv needs to make is less events than 14. Not only to help the other events but for themselves. 14 means with a 2-3 month offseason there will be quite a few months with 2 LIv events. And some stretches with 4 LIv events in 2 months, which is too much LIv to keep it as fresh as it has been.
But of course for Liv dropping to 10 events—maybe 11 with the team championship— LIv would get all the top 5o-7o players they want.
Now where it gets tricky is what constitutes the 50-70 who should be on LIv, especially those with some long term security.
While I believe the owgr needs to become more annual than 2 years I do think LIv should be based on career accomplishments. So for example Phil or tiger: Based on past results —not popularity like the PIP— Both tiger and Phil would basically be in LIv for as long as reasonable (60 years old or so similar to the majors with past champs; but realistically most guys would have to be ready to move on by 50).
Side note:
There are some stars whom don’t have great track records. But most stars have great track records. That’s what usually makes a star. Which is why the Pip is so dumb. Even Rickie has who gets knocked for fame over substance really does have a lot of results so far in his career. Rickie would likely be a player deserving of a LIv spot based on performance alone.
The pga tour and the other tours are going to have to work with about 10-15 events total so players can do the 10 or so LIv events and the 4 majors. It’s really that simple.
forky76
I dont think the pga tour will cease to exist, it’s just never going to be as it was. They will never have a monopoly on the best players in the world again. For now they have a lot of the best players, but the pool is diluted with 25% of the top 50 with liv. And the rumors grow stronger this week cantley and Xander will join them next year. One tour with 75% of the talent and one tour with 25% is not good for either of them.
I couldn’t care less about charities in the US. I care about charities in my home country and the country I choose to live. You Americans forget golf is a world game and neglecting the world market is what started this whole thing.
Tom Edrington
I don’t think you passed simple math class, Forky.
forky76
Tom, in the current top 50 are Smith, Johnson, Niemann, Ancer, Gooch, Koepka, Na, Oosthuizen, Kokrak, Varner, Casey. 11 players (22%). Plus you have Reed & Leishman who have been permanent fixtures in the top 50 the last 10 years and DeChambeau who has been a permanent fixture in the top 20 for the last 5 years, until the great OWGR swindle began. So LIV has between 22% & 28% of the top 50 golfers in the world. I 100% stand by my original comment.
Or perhaps you are living in fairy land that the current OWGR is an accurate reflection of world golf standings.
Tom Edrington
It won’t be long until LIV has very few players in the top 50 — you’re simply going to hate Monday’s feature — LIV fields, overall, are pretty bad. As you rattle off those names, you lend credence to the fact that it’s basically a 15-player field.
baxter cepeda
He is living a fantasy with the owgr.
Im thinking about dj and brooks whom both were struggling for different reasons as they transitioned but are now looking like the world beaters they are.
Bryson is a huge X factor with the world ranks. They guy is so different than everyone on tour. Like he really doesn’t care. He is a world beater but his experimentation, speed work, Socials work, so on and so on hurts his ranking. Because it all Hurst him week to week. But make no mistake Bryson will continue to find his full game here and there and will win big events and majors moving forward.
Tom Edrington
Injuries drove Bryson to the LIV, only he knows how serious they are and future implications — wrist, hip, back — when you go at it like that, it’s just a matter of time, that’s why he took the money and ran.